Chenjerai Kumanyika, assistant professor of journalism and media studies at Rutgers University, hosts a special two part discussion. Kumanyika is co-host of the podcasts Uncivil and Scene on Radio. He is an organizer with 215 People’s Alliance, and the Debt Collective. He is joined for this special episode of Intercepted by the iconic geographer and abolitionist Ruth Wilson Gilmore, author of “Golden Gulag: Prisons, Surplus, Crisis, and Opposition in Globalizing California.” Gilmore is one of the world’s preeminent scholars on prisons and the machinery of carceral punishment and policing. In this discussion, she offers a sweeping and detailed analysis of the relentless expansion and funding of police and prisons, and how locking people in cages has become central to the American project. Gilmore offers a comprehensive road map for understanding how we have arrived at the present political moment of brutality and rebellion, and she lays out the need for prison abolition and defunding police forces.